Welcome to Episode 197! Cristina Cordova leads the Payments Partnerships and Platform Partnerships teams at Stripe, the new standard in online payments that handles billions of dollars of business every year for forward thinking businesses around the world. To date, Stripe has raised over $680m in funding from some of the very best in the business including Sequoia, Founders Fund, General Catalyst, Thrive, CapitalG, Kleiner Perkins and Tiger Global. As for Cristina, at Stripe she manages partnerships with some of the biggest global players including Apple Pay, Google Pay, WeChat Pay and more and has also held roles such as Head of Diversity and Inclusion and Manager of Partner Engineering. Prior to Stripe, Cristina was Head of Business Development @ Pulse (acq by LinkedIn) and was in the marketing team at Tapulous (acq by Disney).
In Today’s Episode We Discuss:
* How Cristina made her way into the world of SaaS and came to be Head of Partnerships at one of the fastest growing startups in the world, Stripe.
* Does Cristina agree with the common notion that certain people are destined for certain stages of a company’s life? How can one determine whether some has the ability to scale or not? What are the leading indicators? What have been some of Cristina’s biggest lessons in scaling from 28 at Stripe to 1,300?
* What does Cristina believe is the key to success when it comes to adapting to new roles? What worked? What did not work? Where does Cristina see many go wrong? How should employees think about title both when joining and when at a high growth company? What is the right way for them to think about and approach equity?
* What does Cristina believe is so special about partnerships with early stage startups? How can partnerships be fundamentally dangerous for early stage companies? How can startups determine when is the right time to engage with partners? What are the key questions and terms startups should focus on when partnering with incumbents?
* What makes Cristina lean in on a partnership for Stripe? What does Cristina believe is the right way to communicate this excitement and set expectations? For the larger player, what does the optimal agreement look like? What are the commonalities in the reasons that Cristina passes on potential partnerships?
Cristina’s 60 Second SaaStr:
* What does Cristina know now that she wishes she had known at the beginning?
* Who is killing it in SaaS partnerships today?
* When is the right time to hire a Head of Partnerships?
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Harry Stebbings: We are back for another week in the world of the SaaStr Podcast with me Harry Stebbings. It would be awesome to see you on Instagram at hstebbings1996 with two b’s. Where you can both suggest questions and guests for future episodes, I would love to see you there.
However, to our episode today, and if you haven’t checked out last week’s episode with Stripe COO Claire Hughes Johnson then that really is a must cause I’m thrilled to be joined today by Claire’s colleague, Cristina Cordova. Cristina leads the payments, partnerships, and platform partnerships at Stripe. The new standard in online payments that handles billions of dollars of business every year for forward thinking businesses around the world.
To date, Stripe has raised over 683 million in funding from some of the very best of the business including Sequoia, Founders Fund, General Catalyst, Thrive, CapitalG, Kleiner Perkins, and Tiger Global, just to name a few. And as for Cristina, at Stripe she manages partnerships with some of the biggest global players, including, Apple Pay, Google Pay, WeChat Pay, and more. And she’s also held roles such as, head of diversity and inclusion and manager of partner engineering, and prior to Stripe Cristina was head of business development at pulse, which was acquired by Linkedin and was in the marketing team at Tapulous which was acquired by Disney. And I also want to say a huge thank you to Claire for the intro to Cristina today, I really do so appreciate that.
However, I’m very excited now to hand over to Cristina Cordova at Stripe.
Cristina, it’s absolutely fantastic to have you on the show having heard so many good things from Claire. So thank you so much for joining me today, Cristina.
Cristina Cordova: Of course, thank you so much for having me.
Harry Stebbings: Not at all, but I’d love to kick off today with a little about you. So tell me, how did you make your way into the world of Saas and come to join one of the fastest growing companies of our time, in Stripe?
Cristina Cordova: Of course! So I guess I started out at a company called Tapulous, which was my first technology start-up that I ever worked for. They actually made games for the iPhone. So before the iPhone even had the “App Store” and the notion that you could even download apps that were not made by Apple, Tapulous would, basically, build all these mobile games and you could download them on jail broken phone. So, I joined the company as an intern and that was my very first world of joining technology startups. From there I joined a company called Pulse, which made a mobile news reading app and both of these apps were basically first of their kind in the app store model of the world, and, for us it was really about how could we build tools and services that people love, typically from the consumer and the world.
So when I originally got to know the founders of Stripe, which I met Patrick at a barbecue, so very small world indeed, and I learned what Stripe was doing and it was very different from anything I had done before. Stripe is really building infrastructure and tools for developers, a very different ecosystem than one I had worked in before. And that was something that really struck me because when I was working at all the other companies I was actually a user of the products, I was a consumer. Going to Stripe, I realized I didn’t actually have to be a developer or an engineer to understand the value of the product, but instead, I could see how much value other people were getting from the product and really know we had an amazing product market fit and developers who really loved our product. So that’s kinda how I got into Stripe.
Harry Stebbings: And my word, do they love it. But that was over six years ago that you joined and so I do wanna kick off with an age old adage that I often hear on the show, and that’s people are often destined for certain stages of a company’s life and you are living proof that this is not the case always. So before we dive into that, how to scale. I’m really intrigued in terms of, how do you think about whether one can determine whether one has the ability to scale with the company or not. What are the leading indicators that an individual can or can not scale, Do you think?
Cristina Cordova: Sure, I would say, first you should determine, do you actually have the ability to scale and then do you actually want to be the person that helps a company scale. Because I think there are a lot of people who have the ability but then they look around and say, “Oh, I don’t think I want to be at a company that’s going to scale that fast.” Or maybe what they really like is a company that’s at a much smaller stage and they don’t like that larger stage. Even if they have the actual ability to do that. But if we focus on whether or not someone has the ability to scale with a company. One, I think there are a bunch of signs when someone is not quite scaling properly so they start, for example, micromanaging their team, their doing a lot of reminiscing about the old way of doing things, how the company used to get things done and how things are different now.
And I think a lot of the folks who actually do have that ability to scale are instead looking at how are they going to gain leverage through working with other people rather than just gaining leverage through working on their own. And two, I think they spend a lot of time on building new systems and processes, so as the company grows they look around and say, “Well, this isn’t kind of going so well anymore and the way that we used to things isn’t really serving us at this point in the lifetime of the company and instead, we should build this new system that actually helps us operate better,” and being okay with the fact that that system might only last a year until you have to move on to a new system. And that’s something I find with people who are really ready to scale with the company and do it in stride, they really like that constant change and evolution of the company.
Harry Stebbings: So if that’s the individual who can scale and implement new processes and have that mental plasticity to see them maybe change, and we have that candidate now. What have been your biggest lessons in what one can do to scale with a company as with when you joined a company with 28 people to now being 1300 today, what were some of those big lessons?
Cristina Cordova: Sure. I would say, one, think about how you can grow with the company rather than letting the company grow around you. I think that was one lesson I learned really early on as being a leader on a relatively small strategic team. There are a lot of teams in companies that are supposed to scale to be very, very large. You see this with engineering teams, with sales teams, with operations teams, but with a partnership team, the whole idea is that you are doing things that are very, very high leverage and.. you’re only going to be doing a few of them. The idea for that means that you have a smaller team than you would have in other functions. It can seem as the company is growing and be very very fast growth, that all these other functions are kind of growing around you and that you’re kind of getting swallowed up. The reality is that you should be thinking about, “Well, now that I’m looking for different opportunities for partnerships that can really change the trajectory of a company that is a thousand people versus a company that is thirty people.
So, I think it forces you to think bigger and that was one of the lessons I earned early on. And two, It’s really easy to complain about things that aren’t really going so well in a company that’s very fast growth and one thing I would say is that it’s easy to criticize things that aren’t going so well, it’s much harder to introduce a proposal for how things could be better. And that was one of the lessons that I learned that it was really about not reminiscing about the old days, but thinking about what really needed to be changed so that we can introduce new systems and processes to fix things that had gone out of control or out of a way that we were used to operating. So those are a couple of the things that I learned very, very early on.
The last thing for me would be, think about all the different ways I could help people around me, whether that people who were internal with the company or folks that were external. So I think that, if you as a person in a growing company are constantly looking at, lets say, your manager and you’re saying, “How could I help that person do better and be a better leader for the company, and what could I do that could possibly help them get more leverage out of me”. And I think if you say that both internally and for external purposes, you know, I think that about our partners all day, like how can I make sure they get more value out of Stripe as we get bigger. And I try to help others as much as I possibly can and I think that can be a great way to, ultimately, help yourself and help the company grow, as well.
Harry Stebbings: Before we dive into the partnership side, you mentioned there about seeing multiple functions that surround you with the fast growth of a company, I’m really interested, because over the last six years I’m sure you’ve had many different roles within the company. In terms of adapting to new roles or new teams, what do you think the key to success here is and what did you do that worked so well, if you don’t mind me asking?
Cristina Cordova: So, I think its right by, I’ve always had my core role, which has been partnerships, or business development, kind of depending on what you call it at a given company. Then, for the last two to three years, I’ve always had a role in addition to that. In Elad Gil’s High Growth Handbook they call that the gap sellers role, I think in a lot of companies you can have people that go around filling these gaps until you get to a place where the organization is much more filled out and that you fill these holes. I tended to stick to what I thought I was really good at which was the business development and then also take on these quote unquote side jobs of going around and standing up some teams that didn’t exist, building out some functions that really needed more scale, and figuring out how I could help there.
So I think that for me, it was really about coming in and thinking about this new function, whatever it was, and not having a stake in the game because I think everyone looked at me as like, oh, I’m just temporarily here. I’m here to kind of help fix something, stand something up, and then I’m going to kind of move on to my next thing. A lot of people didn’t look at me as territory grabbing or anything like that. I would just ask people, how do they think that we should make things better. And it was surprising how many people in a given function actually have a lot of ideas for how things could improve, but they often don’t believe they have the social capital, or the power in a company when it scales to actually get those things done and make that change. When in fact, they haven’t even tried. So in a lot of ways I’m just sitting there and kind of taking in these ideas, and I tend to have very ruthless execution and this experimental attitude to go out and try a bunch of things and see what works and what doesn’t.
Harry Stebbings: You’re on the West Coast, you work at, as we said, one of the fastest growing companies of our day, where do you often see then, if that’s kind of what worked, where do you often see others maybe make mistakes or falter in adapting into new roles?
Cristina Cordova: I would say, in adapting to new roles, I think, a lot of people can come in and think that they know how things are supposed to be done. In reality, when you’re coming into a new role, especially when you’re leading a team of people, a lot of those people actually have more experience in that area than you do. So, you know, if I were to come in and lead, let’s say, a marketing team, the team of product marketers would have a much more experience than I would. So, it’s a matter of thinking about what you bring to the table that the rest of the team doesn’t.
For me at Stripe, it’s about looking around at the broader company and thinking about ways we can get leverage or various gaps that need to be filled. Cross functional dependencies that haven’t been figured out, and that’s where I can really add value. Am I going to help someone be a better product marketer from day one if I’ve never done product marketing? Probably not so much. So I think being honest about where you are going to be really helpful within a given team and that might be outside the general expertise of that team, but it can be something that’s really, really helpful. I’ll tell you I’ve managed a partner engineering team for four or five months in my time at Stripe to kind of stand that team up and that was an experience where you have to come in and say, I do not know your function, I am not an engineer by training, taken a couple computer science classes but, you know, not something I have chosen to do with my career. I think coming in saying this is not what I am an expert at but here are ways that I can help you and what are the things you think I can help with, are ways that I think a lot of people can come into new roles and be successful and where I would feel a lot of people fail coming in and claiming to be an expert when they’re really not.
Harry Stebbings: Yeah, I think that kind of humility really removes a lot of the tension. Sorry, I’m too intrigued not to ask this one cause it’s one that I get from a lot early employees. It’s two elements to stumble on, which is title and equity. So if we start with title, what’s the right way to think about title and maybe in the early days when considering one’s role within a company.
Cristina Cordova: Sure. I would say for title, it’s not something I would spend a lot of time on within an early stage company. Titles should be very fluid, and I think one of the reasons why Stripe has been so successful to date is that, we’ve had people come in, and we say, “Hey, you’re going to lead this function,” right, “but in a year, a year and a half that function may look very, very different.” And so, it may make sense at that point to say, lets have a different structure, and I think a title can actually get in the way of that. If you bring someone in as like a VP, or a C level executive and then later you want to change their function and maybe their reporting to someone else can be very difficult and that person often feels so hurt and demoralized by losing their “title” that they leave. When in reality they just maybe a great director but not a fantastic VP when a company is scaling from ten people to a hundred.
So I wouldn’t optimize for the title in a lot of ways, I would instead optimize for equity, and I find that actually a lot of start-ups in a very early stage will say, “Hey you’re a VP, or you’re a C level executive, but the equity they actually offer is director level or managerial level equity, and so, it really doesn’t matter. I’d much rather get VP level equity and not have the title than to get the title and not have the level equity. I think it’s really about thinking through what you’re going to bring to a company and then being realistic about what that company is going to give you and not get too wrapped up in things like titles, when I think for a lot of early stage companies you really want that optionality to change things as the company grows and if you do a great job, generally companies will reward you with that title over time.
Harry Stebbings: Absolutely, and I couldn’t agree with you more in terms of that kind of title plasticity is something I’ve always respected about Stripe. But I do have to dive into the partnerships element with you today. So let’s start on the partner side, an element you obviously love, but you’ve told me before that it’s a very different and special thing, partnerships at early stage start-ups. So what’s so different and special about early stage partnerships?
Cristina Cordova: So I would say one, partnerships at a really early stage can be, in a lot of way dangerous, and potentially be trajectory changing in a bad way but they can also be very trajectory changing a good way for a company. So, the one thing I would say, typically at an early stage, you have companies deciding whether or not they partner with very large companies. And when you’re partnering with a large companies to really scale your start-up business, often you don’t have a lot of leverage as the start-up in the scenario and the company is not very incentivized to move fast or treat you very well as a start-up. And so, I think doing start-ups at a really early stage can be quite dangerous because you may not be getting the best kind of deal that you could potentially be getting and it could throw off your entire team.
So, for example, if you decide to say, “Well we need half our engineering team to focus on getting this partnership out the door,” and then that team decides to stop spending time on things like finding product market fit, it can be a really bad idea to put resources towards that partnership. So I think it has to be the right time to do partnerships at an early stage company, and I think what’s really special about it is hitting that right timing for a particular company and then two, making sure that you work with companies that are going to really value the strategic offering that you have as a start-up and kind of what you’re bringing to the table.
Harry Stebbings: I mean so much to unpack there. I do have to start with the value element. How can a start-up determine whether this is a conversation they can really devote time to and the partners as often as their enthusiasm might suggest.
Cristina Cordova: Sure. So, one is the company that you’re thinking about partnering with strategically valuable in your space? Or are they just a brand name? I think a lot of large companies kind of ride on that brand name and as a result, you think well, if I’m going to partner with this really large company we just have to do it because they’re so big and in reality, you’re, as a start-up, probably offering more value to that company than what they think they might be offering to you. As an example, Stripe offers a lot in the developer community and so when companies come to us they are often valuing that developer credibility, the ability to build really great technical infrastructure products. As a result, when we partner with other organizations, they really value that highly and they probably don’t bring as much to the table there.
For a lot of start-ups, what your value prop might be could be very different, you may not be in a developer space but, it’s really about how you set the right expectations with those partners as to what value you’re bringing to the table and what value you expect them to bring to the table. A good way of really thinking through that is what does this company bring to you that’s particularly special? Are you going to get a lot of user growth out of that company? Are they going to go to market with your product? Define the metrics of success up front with that partnership and then determine what happens if you don’t hit those KPIs. Does the partnership die at that point? Do you pivot it? I don’t like to spend a whole lot of time on downsize scenario planning but I think it is really helpful to think through “Okay, if this doesn’t quite work out how we expect it to, what next?”
Harry Stebbings: Absolutely. I couldn’t agree more in terms of that. Can I ask, how do you think about the partnership element often with founders concerned that it leads to an acquisition? Is that something that is a prominent part of your role in terms of mitigating that concern, and how do you think about that build via partner theory that is often propagated in the valley?
Cristina Cordova: Sure. I would say certainly one way to prevent an acquisition, especially if you, as a company, you don’t want to be acquired, and you’re really just looking to partner, is to think about ways where this partnership does not “make or break” your business. If you’re working with a partner where they end up becoming 50% of your business, or they end up driving 50% of your business, that can in some ways look great for the partnership person, it’s ideal because it’s driving a lot value. But, on the flip side, it can be very dangerous if you don’t have a great core business so that the partnership isn’t something that if you lose, it ends up becoming a detriment to the overall business and really a deterrent to working on things for direct customers as well. One, I would say find a partner where you get a win-win, a partnership that is mutually beneficial. I think it’s really important to ensure that the partner’s getting value out of this, but also that you are too, and it’s not just about working with those brand names. And then two, make sure that you get the 80/20 of what you want.
I think you can focus a lot on the details and it can really drag out the time to get a deal done. But, it’s really important that you say, “Here are the five things that matter,” and ideally, we get four or five of those things. There might be some additional details that are important, but not that important, and you can use those as a negotiation tactic to really get to the things that you really want because you can give those small things up because you don’t ultimately really care about them just to get the big things that you do care about.
Harry Stebbings: Can I ask, are there commonalities in the big things that one does care about?
Cristina Cordova: I would say one, would be no egregious terms. In thinking about a lot of deals that start-ups get offered, for example, there’s a five-year term on this particular partnership when your start-up has only existed for nine months. It’s a little crazy to sign up for what would be a really long-term relationship. It’s okay to sign up for a relationship like that if you’re getting a lot of value out of it. You could say, “Well, I’m happy to sign up for this five year deal if it means you give us x amount of revenue every year,” or “if that means y amount of customers are being brought in,” and if that doesn’t happen, then you have the ability to terminate the deal. Thinking about ways where you can minimize the risk of some of these egregious terms, or you get rid of them entirely and just say no to them, I think is really crucial.
I would say two, is really thinking about what this partnership is going to require your team to do in terms of resourcing. Most of the partnerships that we’re doing at Stripe, for example, are partnerships that do require a significant amount of engineering investment. If we are investing what is a resource that is much more constrained than anything else, cash, etc. then I want to make sure that those resources are going to something that is valuable for the company at the end of the day.
I think really taking a step back and saying, “Are you willing to take engineers off of the third most important thing that’s valuable to your customers and shipping that or do you want to put those engineers towards this particular partnership?” I think just taking a step back and making sure that it is really the right thing to do is really crucial.
Harry Stebbings: I couldn’t agree with you more there and terms of, kind of, the importance of thinking about resource allocation. I would love, though, to kind of quickly flip to the other side of the table though, to your side of the table, being from the larger player in the partnership relations. When considering the partnership pie to you, what makes you lean in on potential partnership?
Cristina Cordova: I would say the thing that makes me lean in on a particular partnership is very much the company that’s coming to the table and whether they have something unique to bring. For example, a lot of the companies that we work with are very unique in their particular space. I’ll give you an example. Very early on we decided to partner with Apple to offer Apple Pay to all of our businesses on Stripe so that they could very quickly and easily accept Apple Pay transactions just as fast as they would with a credit card transaction. The game-changing element for us in making that decision to basically source a lot of engineering resources and move them over to this potential partnership effort was really thinking through what does Apple uniquely bring to the table where we think they will be successful in this effort and then we therefore have to make sure that we are a part of that experience.
For us, it was the fact that Apple has billions of consumers all around the world with their devices and that it’s, unfortunately, very difficult to pay on those devices if you think about having to enter in a credit card and you bring the credit card out and still continue to type in all of those numbers on your phone. It is quite annoying and difficult to do that. And if we have some core principles that we believe in, which are that payment should be easier, that and our becoming increasingly mobile, and increasingly contextual in the experiences that you live in as a consumer, so we believe in payments being native to the applications that you’re running on your devices, for example. Thinking about what are the core principles that you really believe in? Does this company actually believe in those same core principles? Then, two, what’s the strategic differentiator this particular company’s bringing to the table?
For Apple, that’s consumers with these devices. Stripe isn’t going to be making hardware. We don’t have a consumer product. They’re bringing something to the table that we really do value. Those two things are really things that we thought through as why we should do this and why this particular partnership is different from some of the others that might come to the table. I think it’s really about figuring out what working with the companies could mean for the company and making sure that you don’t just say, “Yeah” purely because of the name.
Harry Stebbings: Now I completely agree with you on that element, but I do have to ask before we move into the quick fire, I spoke to your wonderful colleague, Claire before our conversation and she mentioned your incredible skill, when it comes to executing, when really, in a lot of cases with early stage companies, there remains a large amount of uncertainty, so how do you think about decision-making processes without a lot of information or data to really validate a belief in one partnership?
Cristina Cordova: One, I would say, certainly, when you have lots of data, you should use it to make decisions. When you don’t have a lot of data, I would say you should lean on what your users want and really focus on rapid experimentation. If something doesn’t quite work, then move on but, figure how you can quickly experiment and move without having to really build out this long-term strategy without having any data points at all. As an example, I think for a lot of the things we’ve done at Stripe, I have proposed something as a potential change in strategy and you’ll find a lot of people around the room will say, “Oh, I don’t know if we should make that decision.” “We don’t have a lot of data.” And my response is always, “Well, how about we just try this as an experiment?” So, I continue to do exactly what I was planning on doing, but maybe I do it at a smaller scale so that it doesn’t affect our entire customer base and then I say, “Well, here were the results from that experiment and maybe that’s why we should roll this out to a broader user base,” for example.
Harry Stebbings: So it’s like the MVP of partnerships?
Cristina Cordova: Yeah, exactly. I think for us, it’s really about how do you take those small steps and continue executing so that the process doesn’t actually hold you up? I think, at a lot of companies, once you get to this stage, you can really get to a point where making decisions is a paralyzing process and if you’re really not making like a “trap-door decision”, and by that I mean, a decision that you can’t come back from, I think you really should try to experiment your way there. Then, make a decision that you can’t turn back from. For example, in our business it’s always about pricing your product to it’s true value and so, for a lot of the new products we’re offering, we can go back to some early data customers and say, “Well, what do you think of this pricing?” I’d much rather do that than say, “Let’s spend hours and hours and hours building a large strategy around our pricing without ever having spoken to a customer who could really tell us whether we are pricing to that value or not.” For us, it’s really about how can we use our customers, use our ecosystem, really understand what’s out there to help inform some of the decisions we need to make. Rather than getting mired in a lot of this decision making and that way you can move faster towards execution.
Harry Stebbings: I absolutely love that! It is the MVP of partnerships. That is brilliant! But I do want to finish, Cristina, today on a quick fire round, it’s my favorite of any interview. So, essentially, I say a short statement and then you give me your immediate thoughts. Are you ready?
Cristina Cordova: Sure.
Harry Stebbings: So tell me a moment in your life, Cristina, that serves maybe as an inflection point and changed the way you think.
Cristina Cordova: I lived alone for two years when I was actually a young child/teenager and in junior high and that was something where it really taught me that I could pretty much do anything and as long as I really thought about all the different ways in which I could execute on those things without having to be an adult, or have an adult around me, really taught me to be quite independent.
Harry Stebbings: Who’s killing it in SaaS partnerships today, other than Stripe, of course? And why?
Cristina Cordova: I’d say, in terms of up and coming companies, one company that’s really doing a great job today is Steadman’s and very much because a lot of the partnerships that they do are core to their business. They basically connect all the difference data sources that you might want to use as a SaaS business, for analytic purposes.
Harry Stebbings: And then advice in SaaS that you most commonly hear given that you maybe disagree with?
Cristina Cordova: I would say I disagree with the notion that growth is good at all costs.
Harry Stebbings: Yeah, no, I couldn’t agree with you more there. And then the first start-ups growing incredibly fast, when’s the right time to hire someone who manages the partnership process?
Cristina Cordova: I would say you should hire a head of partnerships when you have determined that partnerships are a good thing for your business and you’ve executed a couple of partnerships from end-to-end before you actually go out and hire someone to do that full-time.
Harry Stebbings: Now, tell me, a final one here. What do you know now that you wish you had known at the beginning and it can be at the beginning of your time with Stripe, 6 years ago, or the beginning of really, your career with Tapulous, but at the beginning of …
Cristina Cordova: Sure. So, I would say at the beginning of my time at Stripe, I wish I had known that the only thing that’s constant at Stripe will be change.
Harry Stebbings: I love that! That should be a book. What a title?! So, Cristina, I had so many wonderful things that I’ll absorb from class, so thank you so much for joining me today, and it’s been such a pleasure to have you on.
Cristina Cordova: Of course, of course! Thank you so much for having me.
Harry Stebbings: What a special guest to have on the show there and I want to say a huge thank you to Cristina for giving up her time today to appear on the show. And a big thank you to Claire Hughes Johnson for the fantastic questions today. Also, if you’d like to see more from Cristina, you can find her on Twitter @cjc. Likewise, we’d like to see you behind the scenes here at SaaStr, you can do that on Instagram @hstebbings1996, with two b’s, it’d be great to see you there.
As always, I so appreciate all of your support and I cannot wait to bring you an exceptional episode next week.