Join Zoom Founder and CEO Eric Yuan and SaaStr COO Mallun Yen as they delve into the secrets of Zoom’s success. Eric talks about the early days of Zoom – how he secured his first investors, employees, and major customers – as well as how Zoom maintains a happiness-oriented culture while achieving skyrocketing growth. Zoom has filed to go public and plans to list on the Nasdaq under ticker symbol $ZM.

Quick recap:

  • Keep your pricing simple
  • Have your user conference around $10M ARR or earlier
  • Take advantage of your VCs connections
  • Being an engineer can give you the upper hand as a CEO because you understand the product

Want to see more content like this session? Join us for SaaStr Annual 2020.


Eric Yuan – CEO & Founder @ Zoom

Mallun Yen – COO @ SaaStr

Eric Yuan: Overall, we want to be very open. Flexible integration with any other software, hardware or business workflow applications. To have the best experience, you’ve got to take a different approach. You need to take a step back, really understand the customer’s problem. And then, invest your energy and time into the product. You make sure it’s very easy to use. It’s too hard? Nobody is going to use that. That’s why simplicity is number one important thing to drive the video conference and use it. The thing about growing fast, you always think about how to get more customers, more prospects. If you do that, you’re in user focus. To focus on making the existing customer happy. And also, we always prioritize the features requested by our existing customers over the new prospects.

Announcer: Please welcome SaaStr Co-Founder and COO Mallun Yen and Zoom Founder and CEO, Eric Yuan.

Mallun Yen: All right, good afternoon. Welcome Eric.

Eric Yuan: Thank you.

Mallun Yen: Did you walk over here, over from Zoom?

Eric Yuan: Yes, it’s just five minutes, very close.

Mallun Yen: All these people who have never been down from San Francisco before?

Mallun Yen: Welcome. So, I am so thrilled to be back here on stage with you. It was two years ago, actually, where we sat on stage at the Bill Graham Auditorium, and, I remember, you had just closed your unicorn round, but you wouldn’t let me say unicorn, with Sequoia for 100 million. So, today we’re going to re-visit a couple of things, deconstructed a bit.

Mallun Yen: So, Eric started Zoom eight years ago as a solo founder. After being an early Webex employee, despite what everyone on Santel was telling you, about video being, maybe a little bit saturated, you were convinced that there was a better video solution out there. And, it turns out, you were right.

Mallun Yen: So, fast forward two years, I think it’s safe to say that Zoom is probably past unicorn status, maybe deca-corn or beyond? But, I won’t push you on that.

Eric Yuan: Hopefully.

Mallun Yen: So, congratulations Eric, on Zoom’s continued success. So, we are going to take a little walk through time and deconstruct the past eight years a little bit. And, look at a few of the learnings that we chatted about last time.

Mallun Yen: So, first of all, let’s start with the fact that, when you first went to get funding, you were turned down by some of the folks on Santel. I mean, first of all, you were a solo founder, it was in a space that everyone told you was saturated, you did not look like the normal, no offense, twenty-something year old, hoodie-wearing, swagger type of individual. But, here you are now.

Mallun Yen: So, let’s start with being a solo founder, because it’s incredibly hard to start a company. Tell us about why you decided to go about it solo?

Eric Yuan: Yes, when I started the company in 2011, I was already 41 years old, but I still feel that I was very young. And that’s okay.

Eric Yuan: So, when you start a company, every company’s different. I learned a lot when I was at Webex. For sure, if I was 24, 25 years old when I started the company, I usually have two co-founders or three co-founders. And when I started the company at only 41 years old, I really think I can handle the pressure. And my left brain, can help the right one.

Eric Yuan: And, for sure there is a personal cost, right? You have multiple co-founders for sure, whenever you have something very important that you can discuss with your co-founders to collectively make a decision. But also, as a sole founder, you also can make a decision in a very timely manner. I do not need to talk with any other co-founders. Speed is everything. Especially, I learned a lot, when I was at Webex. Not only for the product side, but for the sales and marketing side.

Eric Yuan: It really depends, if you think you’ve learned a lot where you were before, at other companies, you really can start as a sole founder. I do not think that’s a problem.

Mallun Yen: So, well, you clearly have done something right.

Mallun Yen: So, you were an engineer by training and then you became an engineering leader, as the CTO of Webex, and then you became a CEO. And, I would say, you’ve made that transition pretty well, in fact, Glassdoor, last year, named you number one CEO, on top of, folks like Marc Benioff, Jeff Weiner and Satya Nadella, just to say it. I think you’ve figured it out a bit.

Mallun Yen: So, tell me how that transition was. Between being an engineer to saying, “Okay, now I’m a founder, but now I’m also, I’m a CEO.”

Eric Yuan: So, to start a company and a product is everything. If you have engineer background, I would say, it’s probably much better, because you really understand the product. Otherwise, you don’t have your co-founder to help you to drive the product side. And, to be an engineer, really can help you because you really understand what’s going on the market.

Eric Yuan: However, transitioning from engineer to engineer manager probably, is straightforward. But, as you transition from engineer manger to CEO, it’s not that easy, not that straightforward. You’ve got to learn about sales, about marketing and, otherwise, you need to hire a lot of other people around you to help.

Eric Yuan: And, another thing is to be a CEO is not only the product side, you also manage the whole of the business. I think, as long as you think you can do it, and learn as fast as you can, also, keep working hard, I think you will get there. The only thing about my background as engineer, I do not think I can be a CEO. I do not think that’s the case. Lots of great companies, like Facebook, Mark Zuckerberg, is engineer background. Yahoo and Facebook, also, Yahoo, Google, same thing.

Eric Yuan: I think to have engineer background, will help you to transition you to be a much better CEO because you really understand the product.

Mallun Yen: So, a lot of the folks out in the audience, a lot of the founders, are first time CEOs, and so, is there any advice that you would give them, in terms of how do you get up to speed and how do you become an effective CEO?

Eric Yuan: A would say be patient. Everybody knows that, to build a successful company, it’s a long journey. You do not think about overnight success. Keep working as hard as you can. Be patient and every day, think about what you can do differently to improve. And, I think you will get there, down the road.

Mallun Yen: Well, they also say that you should hire people who have different backgrounds that you, however, you’re first 33 hires were all engineers.

Eric Yuan: Yep.

Mallun Yen: And so, what led you to decide, that okay, my first 33 hires are going to be engineers? (laughs)

Eric Yuan: Because, at that time, we really needed a product. While we do not have a product, why do we need to have sales? Why do we need to have marketing?

Eric Yuan: Also, other interesting stuff is, a lot of customers told us our product is very simple. One of the key reasons why our product is simple is that wouldn’t have engineers, we even do not have UI designers. So we have to make the UI very simple. Quite often just one button, rather than two or three buttons. Otherwise, we need a UI designer to help.

Eric Yuan: We also do not have QA, because the engineer is regarded to be responsible about the quality. I think, to start with, just to focus on the most important thing, I think product, engineers, that’s much better.

Mallun Yen: So, when did you hire employee 34?

Eric Yuan: 34, I think was probably one year later.

Mallun Yen: One year later. And, that was a product manager?

Eric Yuan: Product marketing manager.

Mallun Yen: And then what did the next dozen hires look like?

Eric Yuan: What’s that?

Mallun Yen: The next dozen after that?

Eric Yuan: This was still engineers. (laughs)

Mallun Yen: Okay, let’s ask this again, at what point did you hire someone, who wasn’t an engineer, besides that product.

Eric Yuan: I think until we decided to monetize our service. We had the first sales person. He’s still our head of sales. That’s the second non-engineer hire.

Mallun Yen: Wow, so you had a whole bunch of engineers, and then one sales person.

Eric Yuan: Yeah.

Mallun Yen: Okay, so let’s talk about, sort of the joke (not quite a joke, because it’s painful) is who was your first VP of Sales, right? Because, inevitably, there’s more than one VP of Sales. But you, are on your first VP of Sales, and, in fact, he was a senior manager right? When you hired him, that was his most senior position?

Eric Yuan: He was senior manager a long time ago at Webex, and then he went into CA, as Director of Sales. Because, we really want to hire those people with huge potential. When you start a company after your product is ready, when you try to monetize, if you hire a senior VP or VP from other, bigger companies, most of the time, I do not think that works.

Eric Yuan: You want to hire someone with huge potential. They can stay with you for a long time. You want to learn everything. I think if you hire someone with potential, I think it will give you a long term, sustainable advantage.

Mallun Yen: And, you’ve done that with a number of your executive team, and, in fact, most of your executive team are the ones that you hired early on in the day. But, I would say that there’s some skill sets that you have to succeed in the early days of a start up. Where you have to be okay with chaos, natural athletes are okay, you just have to pitch in and do whatever, but, sometimes, those people don’t necessarily graduate to the next level of company.

Mallun Yen: What have you done to get them ready to do that?

Eric Yuan: I think that you really need to communicate well before you hire those people. You should tell them, our business, probably, is different than those companies you worked for before. You really want them to learn. It’s kind of, very hands on, really can grow themselves, along with the company growth. Otherwise, you hire someone and in two years, they might not grow to the next level. If your company grows so well, they may not grow and you have a problem.

Eric Yuan: As long as they all understand on day one, they have to grow themselves along with the company growth. That would be a perfect scenario.

Mallun Yen: Because, you’re not a big fan of highly structured training programs.

Eric Yuan: I hate that actually. I think I hate all the layers of management, all the process, and no management is the best management.

Mallun Yen: Well, I think one interesting thing that you have instilled on your team though, and this is something that you do yourself right? It’s fifteen minutes a day?

Eric Yuan: Yeah, so we really wanted to develop all of our employees, myself included. One thing I tried to let our employees do is… so every day, in their calendar, to come up with 10-15 minutes time. I call that thinking meditation. Really think about if you start over today, what are you going to do differently. What’s your strengths? You’ve got to leverage more. What’s your weakness? Every day you’ve got to go think about that.

Eric Yuan: If we all do that, give some time. I think all of us, will get better. If all of us get better, guess what, your business will get better. Because, it’s really hard for us, for managers, leaders, me as CEO, to drive employee growth to the next level. They have to drive by themselves. We are very supportive. So, they’ve got to spend time to think about that.

Mallun Yen: So, you’re about 17 hundred employees, right?

Eric Yuan: Yeah, roughly.

Mallun Yen: And, about two years ago you were at…

Eric Yuan: Around 650.

Mallun Yen: Yeah, that’s a lot of growth in the past, and you’ve hired some people who aren’t engineers now. I presume.

Mallun Yen: So, certain people say there’s certain inflection points when you’re starting a company and you’re scaling a company. When you’re under, I say 20-50, you can, kind of, do things the way that you need to do things. You can email everyone in the company, you could fit everyone in the same room, you can have all engineers if you want, but, at some point, it becomes… you have to actually get that little bit of process. You have to figure out scaling, you have to figure out, do we not just hire natural athletes but someone who’s actually done these things before.

Mallun Yen: At what point did you find there was an inflection point, where you really started to have to think about those things. And, what are some of the things that you did to help get you ready for the next level?

Eric Yuan: Yes, to me it’s more like how good your memory is. So I mean, if you still can remember all the employee’s names, I still do not think you need to have any process, that’s okay.

Eric Yuan: Whenever you have more than 400 employees, it’s really hard for you to remember every employee’s name. Plus, you have more and more big, very large, impressed customers. You have to establish a sustainable process or system to help you further scale the business.

Mallun Yen: And so, for you, you can keep track of 400?

Eric Yuan: It’s more than 500. Before, we had 500 employees. I still can remember most of the employee’s names.

Mallun Yen: So, when you get to the point that you’re at, happiness. We all know that happiness is not just a marketing campaign for you. It’s something that you focus on with respect to your customers but also, with respect to your employees as well.

Mallun Yen: When you start to get to 17 hundred, are there any ways that you have been able to keep that culture going, and that homey feeling? Because at some point, obviously, you’re going to make some bad hires.

Eric Yuan: Yes, that’s the one thing that really keeps me up in the night. I do not know when, it could be tomorrow, it’d be broken. It’s really hard. It’s not that easy, because you have over 15 hundred employees. But, we want to make sure everything is transparent at Zoom. We have, once every two weeks, all house meeting. Every employee, they can submit questions anonymously. Any questions, we do not modify, we just share with all, and talk about that.

Eric Yuan: And also, we will hire those employees with self-learning and self-motivation mentality. So, every day, we talk about our company value, it’s very, very simple, just care. Car about the community, customer, team as well as ourselves. If we all care about each other, starting from so many smaller things, I think we will be okay.

Eric Yuan: The problem is, quite often, when you grow the business, you forget about your company value and culture, employees and sometimes, probably, get a little bit selfish. You do not look at it from a company perspective, you always look at their perspective, then you are going to have a problem.

Eric Yuan: So, for now, we just make sure every thing we are doing is transparent. Let employees really understand every initiative, from our perspective, really wants to help our employees to grow to the next level. And, if they can help us grow our business to the next level.

Eric Yuan: If you do that, also keep everything transparent, I think you are probably going to be okay.

Mallun Yen: So, last question before I move on to product and growth, 17 hundred employees though, how do you communicate with all of those employees.

Eric Yuan: We use Zoom every day. (laughs)

Eric Yuan: So, for sure, we have email, have a chat, have lots of video calls and all house meetings. I just make sure every communication is transparent. Always assume every employee, they have to know everything. Don’t hide anything. Good things, bad things, just share with employees.

Mallun Yen: So, let’s turn to product now. So, two years after you started your company is when you released the first product to general availability. That was January 2013. And, by May 2013, I think you had a million participants already?

Eric Yuan: Yep, that’s right.

Mallun Yen: And then, by June 2014, it was ten million, and by February 2015, you were at forty million. And, I’m sure it compounds, as we know. So, tell us about, how did you do that?

Eric Yuan: I think, to start with, we were very lucky because Walt Mossberg wrote a very nice article, even published a video, and published in Wall Street Journal, and over night it had over sixty thousand hosts, who tried our product. And, we start from there.

Eric Yuan: And, we keep some of them very happy, and probably 50% already gone. But the 50% that are still with us, really help us. Because, every time you schedule a meeting, you invite four, five people to join. If a product really works, guess what, those four, five people, they would become our hosts as well. That’s why we have organic growth, for a long time.

Mallun Yen: But, having Mossberg write about you, wasn’t just luck or random. It certainly took some effort didn’t it? How did you do that?

Eric Yuan: Yeah, we tried to let him evaluate our product, you know? He’s a great guy. He also can not guarantee you to write something. And we hired a product marketing person. He flew to see Walt Mossberg and, unfortunately, the wifi did not work but, Nick, he was there, he used the 3G hotspot and tried the product. The product worked so well. This is a very reliable network. And I think Walt was very impressed. That’s why he tested the product for the whole Summer and then wrote a very good article.

Eric Yuan: So, it still boils down to the product. It works.

Mallun Yen: Well, early on, also, I think you made a concerted effort toward industry reports and industry analysts, right? How soon did you do that after you had product?

Eric Yuan: I think very soon. Around four to five months after that. It’s very important because you want to share the story.

Mallun Yen: And, how hard was it? You know, earlier today we talked about creating a new category. Video was clearly a category. What was the mindset that you had to instill, like the shift that you had to say, as opposed to, this is just another video product, it’s just better. Or, maybe, that was enough.

Eric Yuan: I think it’s really hard to create a new category. Plus, you’ll spend lots of resources on that. So, ideally, you let the end user have a first hand experience. Especially, we are a little a bit lucky because the product does have a network effect. If a product really works better than any other solutions, I think you have a chance.

Eric Yuan: And, at early stage, many of our users really helped us to share the word with other users and bring in a lot of new users for us.

Mallun Yen: So now, you serve customers that range from consumer, online single seats, still have premium customers, and you have large enterprises. So, let’s talk about the early days, because, one struggle that, I think, everyone tests out various options, is pricing.

Mallun Yen: So, in the early days, tell us about how you did pricing, what you might have done differently, and what you might have done that ended up working well.

Eric Yuan: So, to build a great company there is so many areas where you probably need to put efforts on wanting to be very creative. But, when it comes to pricing, don’t be creative. Make it very, very simple. Make sure your kids can understand that. If you make the pricing too complex, I think you’ll have a huge problem. You want to make the price very simple, straightforward, and also, ideally, you make your product the best, and the price is lowest.

Eric Yuan: It’s more like a restaurant business. Your food is great, and when you try to pay, this is also, wow, it’s a very good price. I think that’s the way I look at this. Very simple. Don’t be creative about price.

Mallun Yen: So, most founders I know, test pricing by saying… I’ve said, “How do you come up with the pricing?”

Mallun Yen: They said, “Well, we just picked a number that I though people would pay. And, if they say yes to quickly, then we raise the price.”

Eric Yuan: I did that.

Mallun Yen: Okay. (laughs)

Eric Yuan: Exactly, because we started, seriously, when we started, obviously, we’ve got to make sure we have the best price. We charge them, per user, per host, $9.99, less than $10. We think that’s a good price.

Eric Yuan: However, after the last service, we realized quite often, the customers really like our product. But, when it comes to pricing, they told us, “Are you sure this is the price?”

Eric Yuan: They can not believe. That price is too low. Essentially, they told us, you better increase the price. We increased the price 50% after that, we maintain that price, $14.99 until today.

Eric Yuan: So, it’s a very low price to start with.

Mallun Yen: Okay, so that method works. So, anyone’s testing their pricing by just getting to the point where someone finally pushes back. It can work.

Eric Yuan: You start from a very low price, and for sure, you have room to increase by 20 or 30 percent down the road if it does not work. If you start with a very high price, guess what, you’ve got to lower the price, I think it’s worse.

Mallun Yen: So, we talked earlier about how you have your first VP of Sales, who is still your VP of Sales. And, for most of your life cycle, you have had just a direct sales team.

Mallun Yen: Recently, you announced a partnership with Elysian and Dropbox. So, partnerships, as we know, can be incredibly valuable and accelerating, but they can also be a time sink. How do you decide when to do partnership, when is the timing right, with your partners?

Eric Yuan: First of all, Dropbox and Elysian are two great companies. So, we look at this from end user perspective. Because, we have lots of mutual customers, they use Atlas, Jrod, JAVA apps or Dropbox, and at the same time, use Zoom. You really want to have seamless integration. Meaning, from Dropbox interface, I can now just Zoom call, and after that I can send the recorded meeting files back to Dropbox.

Eric Yuan: Today, customers, they have to switch back and forth. Why not make that experience frictionless? That’s why we listen to our customers carefully, and that’s why… if your integration partnership can benefit customers, I think that partnership will be sustainable.

Eric Yuan: We do not look at it from the partnership perspective.

Mallun Yen: So, any tips to make you sure that you’ve got the right partnership in place?

Eric Yuan: If any user customer really likes that, especially, most likely, a customer will tell you, “Hey, I’m using Atlas and I also Zoom. I do not like this experience. Can you two work together to integrate?”

Eric Yuan: I think that’s the right signal. You’ve got to start working on that.

Mallun Yen: Well, you’ve always been very customer driven, customer is always first, and in 2017, which is six years after you started the company and you were already… let’s see, 2017… even though he doesn’t talk about revenue, he did let me put, two years ago, going to a hundred million ARR while spending almost nothing. So, that may gave you a hint as to what the revenue might have been in 2017.

Mallun Yen: So, 2017 is when you actually had your first user conference called Zoomtopia. So, tell us a little bit about what brought that on and any suggestions on that, because, community, as we heard earlier, from the initial presentation this morning, is key.

Eric Yuan: Yeah, we had our second user conference Zoomtopia, also here, last year.

Mallun Yen: It was great, I came. (laughs)

Eric Yuan: SO, looking back, I would say we made a huge mistake, because when we had our first user conference we already passed like one hundred million ARR. I think, looking back, if you already have like ten million ARR, ideally, you should have a user conference. Because, you get all the customers together, they share the best practice, and you appreciate what they did for you. And, also show the product road map.

Eric Yuan: When the event can really help your business, help your customers. And, we just made a mistake, too late, yeah.

Mallun Yen: Well, I think you made up for it because you had some great speakers. I think you had …

Eric Yuan: Oh, Serena Williams, and also Jeff Weiner from LinkedIn, and also the ‘Speed of Trust’ author Stephen Covey. This was great, the customers really liked it.

Mallun Yen: So, if you remember from two years ago, one of Eric’s philosophies is, you test something out, but he doesn’t spend anything, he’s notoriously disciplined about spending money, but, once you test it out, and it works, then you double down.

Mallun Yen: Sounds like you doubled down on Zoomtopia. (laughs)

Eric Yuan: Yes, that’s our philosophy. Because, we want to test everything. We see the organic growth, we see something already works, we double down. We never wanted to invest to the greater market, the greater something. Do a small test. And then you double down on that.

Mallun Yen: So, also, two years ago, what you said was, they had raised … So, Sequoia was a series D, and before that there was a series C, that was led by Emergence, and so, at every stage, from A and beyond, Eric didn’t spend the previous round he raised until he raised the next round.

Mallun Yen: Now, not everyone has the ability to do that, but, I think you’ve always been focused on not spending ahead of your means. And so, after he raised B, then he started to spend his A, which was a six million dollar round. After he raises B, he’ll raise C, and you started to spend the Emergence, which was the thirty million dollar round.

Mallun Yen: So, Sequoia was two years ago, and now you’ve grown from 600 employees to 1700, is it safe to say you’ve actually started to spend some of that money and what might have shifted, in terms of?

Eric Yuan: So, yeah we did spend money now, otherwise, our investor will give me a hard time. But I still wear jeans when I started the company. I walked here, I did not take Uber here. (all laugh)

Eric Yuan: I think to help us further grow the business, you’ve got to think about hot level funding, hot level investors. Sequoia, Horizon Ventures and Emergence Capital, they all very helpful.

Eric Yuan: It’s not only about money, it’s about their connections, their experience. Quite often, when we try to hire a very important position, always talk with those investors. Get advice from them. And sometimes, talk with customers, they might have connections. Not only do we look at it from a founding, from money perspective, also there are all kinds of help from their perspective.

Eric Yuan: And for sure, we did spend a lot of money on marketing now to create our brand. You’ll see the billboard, or the bus. I think all of those are from our investor’s money. But, again, we are very lean.

Mallun Yen: But, what gave you the confidence to start actually spending?

Eric Yuan: I still don’t have confidence today. Overall, I would just look at it from end user perspective. If you spend more on the user conference… you know our Head of Marketing, she built up a great program for Zoomtopia. And every review that had it all. I think spend more. Try to make sure our user conference is as good as possible and make sure our customers are happy.

Eric Yuan: If you look at every spending from a customer perspective, I think you should be okay. Don’t waste money for something else.

Mallun Yen: So, at this point, with 1700 employees, and revenue that’s going up like this (points to sky), what, maybe it’s many things, but what keeps you up most at night these days?

Eric Yuan: Nothing keeps me up actually. And, actually i have a good sleep, more like a baby, and this is good. Because, if you come to the office and really enjoy what you are doing, I think, you’ve got to enjoy that. So, if you enjoy that, even if there’s some challenges, as long as you can overcome that.

Eric Yuan: For the customer experience, make sure your employees are happy. For me, if our employees are happy, every day, I feel very happy. I think I can sleep very well.

Mallun Yen: So, when you look at your different stages of growth, was there a stage at which you thought it was the hardest? I mean, none of it’s easy, right?

Eric Yuan: I think to get the first ten million ARR, that’s very, very hard. If you can pass that milestone, I think it’s probably relatively easier. But, first, the ten million ARR is extremely hard because from nowhere, to get some customers that want to pay for your service, it’s not that easy.

Mallun Yen: And so for those people who might be in the first ten million ARR, do you have any advice for them?

Eric Yuan: Have a user conference, and probably here, as well. (laughs) And, you will not regret that. To have a first user conference. This is a mistake we made.

Mallun Yen: So, let’s shift gears for a second as we wrap up here. So, video. People told you six years ago, seven years ago, eight years ago, that it was saturated, it’s a crowded market. Where do you see the future of video communications?

Eric Yuan: I think, if you look at the communication, look at today’s workforce, more than one third are millennials. They’ve grown up around short message, office type. I think real time communication will become mainstream service.

Eric Yuan: So meaning, either Slack or Zoom. I think most of you probably use Zoom and Slack, driven by the millennials. I do not think those changes were driven by us. They have to use real time communication. Then, we need to build a better service.

Eric Yuan: I think video, and also the messaging. I think those two will drive the future collaboration.

Mallun Yen: And, what about new technologies like AI facial recognition, all that, do you[crosstalk 00:29:40]?

Eric Yuan: That’s very, very important. After the meeting’s over, we can automatically generate the meeting transcription, a meeting summary. During the meeting time, if I talk too much, maybe too fast, based on your face detection, I say, “Please, slow down”. All those AI technologies will make our meeting experience better and better.

Mallun Yen: And do you see Zoom embracing that as part of organic internal development, partnerships or acquisitions?

Eric Yuan: I think it can be both. I think we’ve got, as long as… Anything we can do to help us, kind of, gain the trust, make sure our customer’s happy, we will do it.

Mallun Yen: Well great. Any final words for our folks out here in San Jose?

Eric Yuan: I think, especially from the start of company founders, I do spend a lot of time to read Jason’s blog. I spend all the time.

Eric Yuan: I think, if you really want to be good at building up good companies, spend all the time to read Jason’s blog. This is my favorite website and spend more time here, a huge fan of Jason. I think SaaStr is really great, most of the time I do not go, but, SaaStr, I’m a huge fan. Thank you.

Mallun Yen: Thank you Eric.

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